I am responding to the following anonymous post:
Thanks for your message on Sunday, John. It was a great reminder that God had planned all along to use weak and frail humans to bring about His purposes for creation. As you were speaking, I couldn't help but think of the many verses that seem to indicate the seeming possibility of failure for the Christian (warnings in Colossians 1, Revelation 2-3, the whole book of Hebrews). How do the truths of God's purposes to perfect us and bring us into the conformity of the image of Christ coincide with the repeated warnings to persevere in the faith or face possible rejection? (Also, if you could give your thoughts on how final judgment fits into this that would be great!)
Great questions "Anonymous." I will try to answer these questions briefly but clearly. I am sure I will not be able to answer you completely in a single post, but I will give it a shot.
The Bible teaches clearly and consistently that once God makes us His through faith, we are His for eternity. After all, our salvation is initiated and completed by God, not us. Once we are His, we are His forever because He is the one who makes us His and guarantees our eternal destiny with Him. Romans 8:28-30 describes our certain hope in Christ:
“And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.” (Romans 8:28-30)
These verses reveal the glorious, unbreakable chain of salvation, which God initiates, secures and consummates in this irreversible, divinely guaranteed chain of events. What God begins, He brings to completion without exception (Phil. 1:6; 1 Thess. 5:24). So certain is our future with God that Paul speaks of us in Christ as "having been glorified" in the past tense, just as we were justified (entered salvation) in the past tense through faith. But how can our future in Christ be spoken of in the past tense? Because our future with Christ is just as certain as our past in Him. This is why we (with imperfect faith) can rest in God's perfect salvation - it doesn't depend on us. It depends completely upon Him, the one who grants us faith and salvation (Eph. 2:8-10).
Now, what about verses which seem to imply that someone who is once in Christ can again be lost? All such verses, including those you listed in your post, do not teach that you can lose your salvation or hand it back. Instead they exemplify the doctrine known as the perseverance of the saints. This Biblical doctrine teaches that those whom God has claimed for himself will prove that they belong to Him by persevering in their God-given, God-sustained faith to the end (Matt. 24:13). This does not mean true believers will not stumble, have doubts or go through dry spiritual seasons. It does mean God guarantees that of those the Father gives the Son, He loses not one (John 6:35-44). Furthermore, 1 John 2:19 affirms that those who abandon the faith after apparently believing never really believed: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
Let's look at the passages you mentioned one by one:
Colossians 1:21-23 says:
21And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.
In this long, run-on sentence, Paul makes a conditional claim about genuine believers. The if clause in verse 23 is the hinge of the passage. Grammatically speaking, it could just as easily have been placed before verse 22. Either way, this final verse (clause) is the condition upon which the promises of (20-22) are based. In other words, Paul says, "if indeed you continue in the faith, you are now reconciled, etc." When Paul; says “if,” he uses a grammatical construction that infers “and I fully expect that you will” since you are, after all genuinely reconciled in Christ. This passage proclaims the eternally secure hope that every genuine believer in Christ enjoys - a hope based upon our transformation in Christ that is complete according to 2:8, 10 and guaranteed according to 3:1-4. Thus, 1:23 should be understood in this context as well. In Colossians 1:10, they are to walk in a manner worthy of their secured position in Christ (cf. Eph 4:1). See also Ephesians 1:13, 14; 4:30 for Paul’s teaching on the perseverance of the saints in the same context.
Paul affirms with Jesus that only those who endure to the end are genuinely saved, (Matt. 24:13). That is, genuine children of God will persevere to the end. In Colossians 1:21-23, Paul is saying: all these things area irrevocably true of you, if indeed you are genuinely His. And the way that you know if you are genuinely His is by continuing in faith: 1. As one who has been well founded, that is securely established as the foundation of a well built home would be. It is interesting that this verb is in the passive voice, emphasizing that the genuine child of God has been "done to" by God—that is, God has established Him firmly and this is His hope.
2. As a steadfast or unwavering person, that is, not shaky, but firm. This person is one who is not continually be moved away from the hope of the gospel, but instead is continually moving toward faith and spiritual maturity in Christ (1:9-12). Lifestyle is at question here.
Those who you have become a partakers of the gospel are irrevocably His—this is our hope!
The Book of Hebrews rehearses the same doctrine throughout its pages. The author is writing to a group of Jewish Christians that had been infiltrated by certain Jews who claimed to be part of Christ's Body but who were really "professing pretenders." They claimed the name of Christ but they were still clinging to the Old Covenant sacrificial system. They had not, therefore, believed in Christ unto salvation. The author of this letter warns over again that genuine believers in Christ will forsake the old covenant and persevere in truth until the end:
Hebrews 3:6 ... Christ is faithful over God’s house as a son. And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope. - In other words, if we persevere in faith, we prove that we are His workmanship.
Hebrews 3:14 ...For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end. - Again, we have come to share in Christ if the power of Christ within us compels us to hold on to Him.
Hebrews 3:19 (the author compares this NT audience to the OT Jews who wandered in the desert in their unbelief and never entered the promised land, saying: we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief. The issue is not one of losing salvation, but of never obtaining it!
Salvation in the Book of Hebrews is described in terms of entering God's rest. In Hebrews 4:1 ... Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it (enter salvation). Again, the issue is not one of being in then out, but of never entering God's rest (salvation) in the first place.
In Hebrews 6:1-8, the author gives his harshest warning yet to the pretenders in this community of faith who were still insulting the blood and grace of Christ by practicing the old covenant sacrifices:
1Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And this we will do if God permits. 4For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
Note especially verses 4-8. If these apostate non-believers continue falling away from God in their unbelief, resisting the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit and the power of God's Word that is calling them out of the Old Covenant and into the New, they would become unsavable! Verse 6 says they are approaching a point of no return in their rebellion against God and were about to commit what I believe is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (See Matthew 12), which boils down to a bold-faced rejection of the gospel by non-believers who never belonged to Christ. Verse 8 says they were almost cursed and about to be burned. They were at the very last stage of apostasy!
In Hebrews 6:9, the author assures the genuine believers in the audience that they he believed better things for them, things that accompany salvation - affirming once again that the warnings above apply to professing pretenders who were not yet saved.
The section in Hebrews 10:19-39 follows the same pattern, concluding with a similar encouragement to the genuine believers: 39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.
I would be happy to respond to the Revelation passages if you could be a bit more specific as to which passages you have in mind.
In response to your question about final judgment, the Bible speaks of two judgments at the end of the age:
1. The white throne judgment (Rev. 20:11-15) determines who is in Christ and who is not. Those whose names are written in the book of life will be forever with God in the new heavens and earth. Those without Christ will be separated from God forever in hell.
2. A judgment of works for believers in Christ (1 Cor. 3:10-15; 2 Cor. 5:10). At this judgment, the deeds of our life in Christ are sifted by God's holiness to determine their origin and subsequent value. Those things done in the Spirit will last forever and we will enjoy them forever. Those things we did of ourselves will be lost forever.
I hope this helps. Thoughts or questions anyone?
pastor john
Tuesday, May 13, 2008
Can I lose my salvation?
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5 comments:
The idea of salvation being lost seems to come up a lot, whether in religious dialoge or in general conversation. I'd never given it much thought, honestly. But, looking at the listed verses and seeing your explination, it seems like the Matrix Principle (If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is). I can understand how some people can look at these verses and interpret them as a way to lose this amazing salvation that just seems too good to be true. Where's the other shoe, right? Where's the catch? In society, it's always a case of "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours". The fact that we don't have to do a thing is what makes Christianty so fundamentally countercultural.
I agree. When you begin with God, it all makes sense. When you begin with man, nothing makes sense.
Hmm....I actually wasn't anticipating a "theological" response. I was thinking on a more practical level, but I do enjoy discussing theology from time to time.
Repeated admonitions and warnings in scripture seem to be saying that I have a small part to play in God's grand scheme of, as one Anglican Bishop has said, "putting the world to rights". Part of that grand scheme is putting me "to rights" as well.
At the risk of opening up a 2000 year old can of worms, it seems to me the choices I make can either help or hinder God's purpose for his creation and for my life if "free will" in any sense of the word is true. What I am hearing from your previous response, John, is that God's going to do what God's going to do both in my life and in His world. While I agree with that to a certain extent, I have a hard time taking perseverance of the saints seriously as it relates to those verses. I have two questions that hit me that I would like to ask.
1) How is a warning to the Christian to persevere any more than superfluous if it is actually impossible to fail to persevere? Speaking generally of all warning passages in scripture, there is a sense of urging and, indeed, urgency with which the warnings are given. Arguably the whole book of Hebrews is a warning to persevere to enter the rest, to obtain the inheritance, to enter the unshakable kingdom. If there is no real danger to Christians, why bother bringing it up? To tell them that if they don't persevere they were never God's to begin with? So the author is actually not warning believers but non-believers? That doesn't make sense to me.
2) How does perseverance of the saints give any assurance of salvation to the believer at the present time? If only the ones who persevere are truly saved, then it seems that automatically disqualifies anyone from having assurance that he is truly saved because he does not know if he will persevere; he will not know until the end of his life. In addition, it seems that the basis of his assurance will be his works and probably will reckon himself saved or damned depending on the day of the week.
As a separate but not wholly unrelated point, you mentioned two judgments, one for believers, one for non-believers. Growing up in dispensational circles, I've become familiar with that viewpoint. I've looked at all the relevant passages I can think of related to the final judgment, and as I piece things together, it seems like there is actually only one judgment. Here's my line of though, I'd like your comments if you're so inclined...
1)Everywhere I can see final judgment in view, it is always on the basis of works. (Eccl 12, Matt 25 sheep and goats, 2 Cor 5, Rev 20, and a few others that slip my mind at the moment)
2) It seems that when there is a judgment, everyone is there (no mention of just believers or just unbelievers) Matt 25--"all the nations", 2 Cor 5--not specific, but looks like it could be taken as all=everyone, Rev 20--the dead great and small from both death and hades appear, suggesting all people from all time, and v.15 seems to indicate some names found in the book of life and others not.
3)Jesus is the one dishing out the judgment. John 5:25-29, the Father gives judgment to the Son. Matt 25:31, Son of man judging on his throne, 2 Cor 5:10--judgment seat of Christ, Rev 20--"someone" on the throne, Romans 14:10--majority greek text has judgment seat of Christ (nkjv).
My tentative conclusion is that there is one judgment, Jesus is doing it, and it's based off our works which will determine our destiny. Does this argument seem to be going against what I was arguing for about assurance and salvation above? Yes. Does this argument put me in a sticky situation regarding my soteriology? Yes. Does it make me a heretic because I seem to be saying it is our works that ultimately save us? Yes. But it makes sense to me, it is an original idea of mine that I have come to based off of my study, so I probably weigh it more heavily than I should.
With that, I think I'm all done. I hope none of this comes across as arrogant (that's the last think I hope for). I am just a young buck in a theological forest trying to find the River of living water, having been wounded by the snares of hunters (however well intentioned), becoming weakened and disoriented, desperately hoping to find the River from where I can draw new life. With all the theological mess in the world, I search hoping only to find Jesus, to know Him, to be changed by Him, and in however small a way, to be used by Him. My meager thoughts, however poorly articulated, are an attempt at this, so please take no offense.
I take no offense my friend. I applaud and welcome your honest questions. I too am in process. We are all on a journey. Too many have stopped asking questions for fear of what they will find. But Jesus declares that it is truth that sets us free. You are wise to seek for truth in the one who declares Himself to be the TRUTH - Jesus Christ.
Let me try to address your questions one by one - not exhaustively but in a cursory sort of way that I hope will cultivate our discussion.
1. The Biblical teaching regarding the perseverance of the saints does not say you cannot fall away if you belong to Jesus, but that God will not allow you to (ultimately) reject Him, because He is the one who initiates, guarantees and promises to fulfill your salvation (Romans 8:28-30, etc.). This does not discount the human will, it ensures us that God will not let those whom He has granted saving faith (John 6:65) lose that faith. As I read scripture, it seems to me the passages that address "falling away" serve to purify the Church and preserve the gospel by calling people to "examine themselves to see if they are really in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5-6). It also reminds us to preach the gospel that Jesus preached - an invitation not merely to get out of hell, but fundamentally, to follow Him. Many claimed to "believe" in Jesus (John 8), but only those whom the Father gave to Jesus (John 6:36-40) were those who exercised saving faith and subsequently persevered in this God-given faith unto the salvation God had placed upon them.
2. Regarding assurance of salvation, it is important to separate the fact of eternal security, from experiencing assurance we area His. The doctrine of eternal security does not, in itself bring us existential assurance that we are His. God gives us this experiential assurance through His Spirit within us (Romans 8:14-16), and through our changing life in His power (1 John 2:3). This stands upon our intellectual assurance that comes from the promises of God's Word (e.g., 1 John 5:11-13).
3. In terms of the judgment(s), you have made a very good point. In saying there are two judgments, I am not necessarily arguing for two separate times of judgment. In fact, Revelation 20, Matt. 25, and 2 Corinthians 5:10 may only refer to one grand judgment at the end of the age. This actually makes good sense. However, it is clear from scripture that there are two aspects to the judgment(s) that come(s) at the end of the age: One to determine who is saved (who's name is written in the book of life (Revelation 20:15), and another, perhaps simultaneous judgment to sift the works of believers to determine their origin (John 3:21) and quality (1 Corinthians 3:13), resulting in heavenly reward or great loss (1 Corinthians 3:15; 2 Corinthians 5:10). While both the saved and unsaved are judged according to their works, the unsaved people's works condemn them, while the works of the believer no longer condemn them (John 5:24). The genuine follower of Christ is saved, regardless of His works (1 Corinthians 3:10-13). To my knowledge, this is consistent with reformed, non-dispensational theology.
4. My heart is heavy at your conclusion that salvation is by our works. This is, in my view, the most dreary view of salvation you can hold, since it is, by scriptural definition, impossible to be saved by your works. All that we are and do is stained with sin (Isaiah 64:6; Romans 3-6, etc.). This means even our best attempts to save ourselves by being good enough will fail and our salvation is impossible. If we get what we deserve at the judgment, we have no hope. The reason the gospel is good news is because Jesus has done for us what we could not do for ourselves. He lived a sinless life and then paid the perfect sacrifice for our sinful failures so that we can be forgiven in Him, and then begin to bear spiritual fruit as He makes us new and lives through us. The NT is replete with admonitions against trying to be saved by our works, while at the same time proclaiming our salvation has come in Christ (John 5:24; Romans 1-8; Galatians; Ephesians 2:1-10; Titus 2:11-3:7, etc.). The OT affirms and looks forward to this grace in Christ that is revealed in the NT. Please help me understand how you have come to this place in light of the ubiquitous (everywhere) Biblical teaching on salvation by grace through faith.
Peace my friend.
pastor john
This an issue that is certainly worth discussing and thinking about. From more of a logical perspective if we know that salvation is a gift by the grace of God, lest any man boast (Ephesians 2:9-10), then we know that it is not by our works (what we do) that save people to begin with. Yet how is that by our works we are able to lose that gift of salvation? The reason people become Christians is that they admit they are a sinner and consequently need a Savior. Although we, Christians, continue to be sinners the idea of losing the gift of salvation never applies. However, most people probably feel like they don't deserve salvation based on what they do. And that gets back to the point of our deeds can never be perfect or meet God's standards.
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